I have no idea how much value was added by testers of these systems, but it looks from the tone of comments here that you should seriously review any inclination to get too involved in testing. It seems that MS has taken on board attitudes formed in some lesser companies and diluted it's best talent with then.
Sometimes till you can't even see the talent any more. Just been to a client's and whilst installing a new windows 7 PC I noticed that it had Live Mesh not beta. I was about to show the client how it worked as I had tested it on his other PC XP one yesterday which worked fine.
Anyway I thought lets uninstall the beta one and install the new one just to make sure there are no compatible issues. Yes it was at this point I discovered it doesn't work. Sign in at www. Here is the problem I have with this approach. I had to go through a couple of hours to get live essentials back to version because it did not work on my Vista machine. Now I cannot use Mesh, because I cannot load mesh as a stand alone product without upgrading everything else which does not work.
If you are going to force a choice to upgrade then the choice should work. What is more bundling software this way is a sure model to get people to look elsewhere. The reason it is free though is not because of the consumers, but because MS wants to get a share of the market their competitors have taken from them over the last several years.
It is this approach here that caused many to look for alternatives with paid software. Now doing with free software is pushing the ones that stuck with MS to other alternatives further eroding your market share. It is just bad business. That's my 2 cents. I'm not sure of your reasoning about free vs. I'm just one insignificant data point, but I'm voting with my wallet on this one. Microsoft has over the past couple of years just lost my trust, with lots of strange strategic decisions.
Oh and I forgot to mention, the rot set in when I paid for a Vista upgrade, then had to reformat my hard-drive to go back to XP.
But Microsoft just prefer to pull the plug. I just don't trust Microsoft any more. I certainly will not be using their ludicrous cloud service - how do I know they won't just pull the plug on that too, leaving my data stranded? Well if a company wants to attract my business with a free service, but then force me to chose an option that does not work, then it is a bad business model in my estimation.
I tried windowslivehelp when it was in beta same problem without resolution. What is more, I do not have several hours to work with MS fixing their free software that is why I went back to WL when beta did not work. I had hoped that the bug was gone with the release of , but alas it did not. There are other problems as well. Just "google it" and you will find that live essentials is replete with bugs, complaints, and problems.
To announce that you are sunsetting one product in favor of another sync to mesh before the new product has been barely available and bugs are understood let alone fixed is poor business whether software is free or paid.
MS is not developing free software as some public good. They have a goal in mind to be sure. There is a model that will lead to increased profits down the road.
I am saying if it is to be a good model for future business MS needs to listen to its customers. Stephen you're doing a valiant job holding the line here. As you've said here you're not involved in the meetings that decide these things. I for one would really appreciate it if I knew that this issue was in front of decision makers. Not just decision makers for this product category, but all of them. Years ago I had a sense that Microsoft was run by technical people, who were smart, and that the awesome complexity was all held in the RAM of at least one man.
Result: complex and really hard decisions made and often right on the money. A spectacular achievement. Now I see signs that consumer oriented flim flam artists get too much input into decisions. True you can get way with treating some of the mass market like morons. Here we're talking technical users and it's much harder to get away with it! I'd dearly like to know what's going on to improve management of product development.
A post telling us what attention is being paid , would be appreciated. Dropping the veil of secrecy wouldn't be a bad idea either I know you are not behind that veil either.
If you have some feedback on what attention is being paid, please post about it. BJ, you still didn't tell me what your issue was. I encountered a problem with the removal of Live mesh beta from one machine and on another Messenger didn't install properly. I fixed both, though. I know that some people can and will have problems upgrading, installing, etc. If I had insight into those details I would not be allowed to reveal it.
So, I don't know the specifics, but I do know that the decisions made were the result of many long discussions, lots of analysis, and some disagreement - as all decisions of this sort are made. Steve: I am sorry I feel like I have hijacked this thread. I think you hit the nail on the head. Does MS want to attract consumers that have little or no technical expertise?
They are going to have to change their business model then. You have the expertise and can fix problems. The average computer user it is a mystery. Their mindset is if it does not work buy a new computer. Change is not bad if it improves the previous condition. But when change makes things worse eg elimanting the majority of users of windows in the business world xp ability to use your product, bundled programs that do not play nice together Essentials Live then yes people hate that kind of change.
Thank you for listening to the rant. I appreiciate your willingness to hear us out. BTW I am still reluctant to upgrade, but if I had a moderator like you helping me then perhaps I would You're welcome, BJ. The rant is okay and I understand. When things go wrong, it is very frustrating. Why can't microsoft just keep windows live sync alive. It runs on Vista and Windows 7 too. I use both 'mesh' en 'sync', they live happily together in my tiny system as I have three machines with XP, Vista and Windows 7.
Mesh is better but why shut down the good old live sync. That much costs will not be involved for a company like Microsoft. Mr Jobs allways says: to get a customer is the easy part, to keep the customer is the hard part Having a bit more of an overview of development in both small shops 40 developers and knowing folks at MSFT, you really have to be there. First off on the XP issue. We have to kiss it goodbye folks. Many resisted it in the first place just like the did Vista.
Those who embraced Vista, enjoyed the beauty and aroma of the rose of Vista and put up with it's thorns. By doing this we reaped the advantages of a new code base, more security and were ready for Win7 in many ways.
When your a small shop and a client wants a piece of software to work on Win98, it's problem. How would you advise them. Spend money on keeping a 12 year old server running and keep the code working on a insecure system? I enjoyed Live mesh beta, and used it for collaboration for a book I was involved in. Worked great. Am I pleased that it will not work on XP,no. But I understand. There is still some good functionality in Live mesh and it's free, so let's see if we can deal with "What IS" and craft solutions with it.
This debate is framed as XP because of the title of the OP. I take it as a wider debate. Windows is part of it. Server OS's last longer and are more important to some people.
Synch is, in my view, especially about servers and on this count it's a fail. Some postings above mention this. I'm also concerned when I see a company dissing it's own products. I've been exposed to a few of those, some dead wrong. Salesmen getting too much power will distort the truth! It's true that when we see a "business decision" made and it's an obvious hard one, it's going to hurt. Server OSs are more entrenched.
Exchange is even harder to move forward. It's part of the IT world. I also see a great opportunitiy for a third party firm to create these products. We know what will happen then and in the end we will get what works for us. I don't like distorting the truth at all. If any sales folks are reading this Please know your products and be up front about reality and cost. In the past I had one sales person tell me "Don't tell them how much hardware they are going to have to buy to deploy this product".
The result is a decision maker that is screaming at the technical people for what the sales person said. Sales Professionals. Please be real. Trust is the best thing you can sell right now. Deliver value and trust. Let's see what all this clamor can do for the next round of decisions Microsoft makes.
Things can change. It is after all software. Yes, people got it to work, but it was not an intended platform for the beta and required a workaround to get it installed and running.
Server is a strange beast. It is very different than Windows Server , which was an update to NT4. I wonder how some of you MVP's got your status with these comments. What people are primarily upset about is that in spite of being a free service, it was taken away. The obvious reasons that we can all see here is that MS wants people to get with newer operating systems.
To the users and most others with any level of technical savvy, this a problem to those who have become dependent on it, or have older computers. It's entirely possible to simply leave the system in place that already worked for XP users. The fact is you can still purchase new computers with XP installed, from major brands like HP and Dell and XP's support doesn't end until Some of you really pull off this elitist attitude when you tow the line of get over it and upgrade. You act as if people should stop whining and go out and buy a new computer.
The two truths here are that MS wants people to upgrade and that many people don't have a compelling reason to do so, or they simply can't. What's caught in the middle is a feature that MS once offered for free, and then took away, simply because it's been re-branded and a check in place to make sure it doesn't install on XP. This was done on purpose and is nothing new. Since we are in the Live Mesh beta forum, I'll focus on that. It has always been a beta.
It was never a free offering for anyone, nor was it a paid offering. Support was handled through the forums and at an earlier time via bug reports and email.
When Microsoft released Windows Live Mesh, they could have immediately closed down Live Mesh beta - in fact they could have closed it down long before, since development was happening on the new version.
To keep multiple services operating in order to support XP would be very costly. The reality is that there are 3rd party products that can be used to perform remote access and file sync that will work with a variety of operating systems. They aren't free, though. I am fully aware of the reason people are upset. I am fully aware that people cannot upgrade their computers or operating systems and cannot afford a new PC.
I do not expect Microsoft to provide a free service or product to older operating systems. I would not be surprised to find someone happily running Windows 3. The fact that people continue to run unsupported operating systems doesn't mean the Microsoft should provide them with the same additional services and programs being given to those using the latest 2 operating system versions.
And, I expect that when Windows 8 is released, there will be perks for users of it or Windows 7 that will not be available to users of Vista. Your final two sentences are speculation on motive. It isn't fact, but even if it were, that is Microsoft's right in a free market economy. Windows Live Mesh was called Windows Live Sync during the beta and it was an upgrade to the existing Windows Live Sync - built on the architecture of live Mesh beta, but dependent on features not available in XP, to the best of my knowledge.
It was rebranded as Windows Live Mesh at release. The web services of Windows Live are available to all - even Mac and Linux users. You are welcome to use Windows XP as long as you wish.
Eventually, the benefits will dwindle more and more. It will be unsupported and new software and hardware will fail to work with it. Please note that gpedit. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Please click on the following link to open the newsletter signup page: Ghacks Newsletter Sign up.
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Create your own SDelete shortcut for secure file deletion. Comments Dexter86 said on July 14, at am. Martin Brinkmann said on July 14, at am.
I use it mainly for backing up documents and photos as well as keeping my documents accessible from multiple places. I just wonder: It sure seems to be massive undertaking to host a service like LiveMesh so how does MSFT monetize over this huge traffic. How do they make ends meet? Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment.
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